Wayfaring MD

I am a family medicine resident who likes to highlight the hilarious in medicine as I write about patients, medical school, residency, medical missions, and whatever else strikes my fancy.



Disclaimer:
HIPAA is for reals, folks. All of my "patient stories" have been changed to protect patient privacy. I will change any or all identifiers, including age, location, race/ethnicity, sex, medical history, and quotes.
Wayfaring MD followers
Recent Tweets @WayfaringMD
Who I Follow
Posts tagged "money"
Asker bitemebloody Asks:
Do you think it's wise to hold a job while in medical school? I recently got a rough estimate of my undergrad loans and REALLY don't want to drown in medical school as well. The money end of going to school stresses me out far more than anything else. I have bad panic attacks over it every few months, and I want to at least be able to pay for food and rent without resorting to loans, but I don't know whether I should... ~Overly long question giver.
wayfaringmd wayfaringmd Said:

Yeah, it’s generally ill-advised to work while in medical school. Most medical schools actually have a rule against students working.

Consider this: in your first two years you will be averaging 8-12 hours of studying/class a day, 6-7 days a week. Where does that leave time for a job? 

In the third and fourth year, your clerkships will essentially be your job. You will work days anywhere from 8 to 30 hours long, 5-6 days a week. When you have downtime in the hospital and when you go home, you are studying for shelf exams and putting together case presentations. Again, not much time for work. 

Read More

image

Good god, how are you meant to pay that off?!

That’s the question, isn’t it? Especially considering I aspire to be a missionary family doctor. There are definitely loan repayment options with many jobs, though, especially for folks like me who are willing to work in a rural or underserved area. 

Asker Anonymous Asks:
How much debt did you have after medical school?
wayfaringmd wayfaringmd Said:

At graduation it was about $275,000. Now with interest, it’s about $300,000.

image

I’ve heard that now isn’t the best time to become a doctor, financially speaking. Thoughts? -anonymous


It’s never a good time to go into medicine if you’re going into it solely for money. If you want money, get a business degree. It’s cheaper and takes less time. 

If you love medicine, it shouldn’t matter how much money you make. Yeah, it’s expensive to get an MD. But if you live responsibly and not above your means, or if you’re smart about your repayment options, the loans can be repaid in a reasonable amount of time. 

worth of CME (continuing medical education) money left for the year after buying Step 3 World QBank. I can use it for books, medical equipment (like a new stethoscope, which I don’t really need), or conferences mainly, and the money doesn’t roll over. We get $500 in first year and $1000 each subsequent year. I don’t really have any time available that I can take off for conferences, so I should probably stick to books and equipment. I’m specifically trying to think of books that could be helpful on the mission field. 

Any suggestions for how to spend it?

Things I’m thinking about getting: 

Procedures for Primary Care

A Practical Guide to Joint and Soft Tissue Injection and Aspiration

Oxford Handbook of Tropical Medicine

Using the money to pay for InMed courses. 

 My plan for third year is to use my CME money to buy a 3 year subscription to UpToDate (that is if whatever job I go to doesn’t pay it…).

HI! I'm currently a senior and about to take the MCAT in the fall but considering switching to PA school or pharm school for these reasons: Cost ( lot of debt out of med school esp if you want to become a family prac/pediatrician like I do). 2. Stress and lifestyle. I don't know if I'll be able to handle another four years of med school and 3 years of 80+ hour work weeks for residency. I need 8 hours a night to function. 3. Timeline. When do you have time for family and relationships. Thoughts?
wayfaringmd wayfaringmd Said:

1. Yes, medical school is expensive. But so is PA school and so is Pharmacy school. Don’t pick your career based on how much money you will or won’t make. I’m in family medicine residency right now, eventually planning to be a missionary making next to nothing, and I probably have more loans than any of my classmates. But I’m not really worried about the money. There are TONS of places out there that will give you money to help with your loans if you sign to work with them for a few years. 

And let’s not forget the 10 year income based loan repayment plan. For more posts to help calm your fears on the money issue, check here

2. Welcome to being a grown-up. You think PAs and Pharmacists aren’t stressed out? Trust, they are. And their school is hard too. And the hard work doesn’t end with school or residency. The hours can get even longer when you’re out in practice (depending on how you want to work).

I totally understand needing 8 hours. I generally require more sleep than the average housecat, too. But I’m also realistic enough to know that it’s not always going to happen. I’ve made sacrifices and dropped some social things so I could sleep, but there are some days that it just can’t be done, and you have to be okay with that.

 

3. There will be time for what you want to make time for, whether it’s sleep, fun, family, volunteering, extra studying, whatever. If something is important to you, you’ll make time for it. Obviously, some sacrifices do have to be made along the way, but you can still have a family and be a doctor. Dr. Cranquis and Wife of a Doc Star have some excellent old posts on maintaining healthy relationships and getting married while in medical school. 

All the concerns you have are valid, but they can be overcome. People do it every day. If you really want to be a doctor, you’ll make some sacrifices along the way. However, if these things are too much, don’t be a doctor (but don’t kid yourself into thinking that PAs or pharmacists have it super easy, either).  And please don’t pick your career based on money or stress level. If you do what you love, the stressful stuff becomes much more do-able. 

Do you think $8,000 might be enough to survive a school year on for room board and transportation. I'm trying to avoid at all costs getting a private loan, and I'm considering keeping a job through the school year. Do you think it possible or just failure waiting to happen?
wayfaringmd wayfaringmd Said:

Ooh, 8 grand would be REAL tight. 

If you plan on living at home, rent and utility-free, and walking most places, it may be possible. But otherwise, I’m not really seeing it happening. 

Keeping a job with the hours needed to actually support yourself in medical school is near-impossible, unless your job involves dealing drugs or selling yourself ;). At my school we weren’t allowed to work. 

I had no family contribution to my med school expenses, so I got all the loans. It’s terrible, and I owe nearly 300K, but my perspective is that as a physician (even in the lowest paid specialty, family medicine), I should be able to pay off the loans in a reasonable amount of time if I live well within my means. Check out that new 10 year income-based plan with loan forgiveness for people who work for non-profits…

Anyway, I lived off about $22,000 a year and I certainly wasn’t living extravagantly. I had a roommate all 4 years and lived in a fairly cheap city, so my rent + utilities came to about $500/month. Then add about $400 a month for car payment, insurance, and gas. That alone is over $10,000 a year. 

Then add internet, cell phone, food, books, clothes, medical, and the occasional surprise car/medical expense, and it comes to about $1400 a month. Plus you know you’re going to spend some money on random stuff. And then there’s boards, which is crazy expensive. I also saved a little money every month for fourth year, when life gets much more expensive because of interviews, boards, and moving. I’m just not sure it can be done for $8,000. I’m sure there are exceptions, but they’re not the rule, for sure. 

Hi WayfaringMD! Do med students get a stipend? If not, how do you pay for living expenses (i.e., rent and groceries)? Is it all on loans/personal funds? Thanks!
wayfaringmd wayfaringmd Said:

Stipends? 

The vast majority of us do not have stipends of any kind. Those who are on military scholarships get stipends, and some state-sponsored scholarship programs offer modest stipends. But for the rest of us, it’s either mommy/daddy’s money, wifey/hubby’s money, or loans. 

My parents are regular middle class folks, and 

So…. I took out an extra ~$20K/year to live off of (I had a roommate to split costs with, so I was able to get by a little cheaper). Others took out similar amounts, or more or less depending on how many people they had to support with the money. Very few in my class had the personal funds to get through school. I can only think of one, maybe two, that did it that way. 

It’s a terrible system and we all hate it, but no other solution has presented itself. 

For ways to make money in med school, check this post. 

And of course I also have more legitimate answers to questions about loans and money

Asker Anonymous Asks:
I want to become a doctor very badly but the more I look at medical school cost, the more I think that's a dream that's reserved for rich people.
wayfaringmd wayfaringmd Said:

Well think again, friend! I come from a regular middle class family. My dad works at a car parts plant and my mom is a former paralegal/former music store clerk/current nurse/piano teacher/church pianist. We aren’t rich by anyone’s definition. 

Sure, there are some disgustingly rich people in my class, but they are few and far between. Most of us got to where we are with lots of help from scholarships. And we’re getting through medical school on tons of student loans. There’s no other way to do it. And I don’t plan on being a super wealthy doctor (you know, they don’t pay rural family docs/missionaries all that well), but I know that there are ways to get those loans paid. So don’t you worry about the money, friend.

I have some posts on loans and money if you want to know about some of those programs. 

I have to say that I appreciate hypobenjaminemia. That's one that I didn't even think of.
wayfaringmd wayfaringmd Said:

Always gotta consider the Benjamins. 

Asker Anonymous Asks:
Do you know of any med students that have part-time jobs? Or is med skool a full time thing?
wayfaringmd wayfaringmd Said:

A few people in my class would work part time on occasional weekends, but for the most part, we just live off the gov’ment. Med school is totally a full time thing. Actually, my school tells us we’re not allowed to work (even though a few did anyway) because the demands of med school are so high. 

Asker Anonymous Asks:
I feel so dumb. How are you not living with a parent then? Loans?
wayfaringmd wayfaringmd Said:

Yup, I live off of loans. 

Some folks have parents who are wealthy or they have spouses with jobs. My parents live 2 and a half hours from my school and they have $0 to give me. So I have ~$250,000 in loans. I live pretty cheap though (I take about $20K a year to live off of) because I have a roommate to share half of my rent and utilities with. 

P.S. Folks, you don’t all have to ask me anon questions. I’m happy to reply back privately. I like to know who I’m talking to. 

EDIT: For a legit answer about how to pay for medical school, peep this post

Asker Anonymous Asks:
How do you make money in medical school?
wayfaringmd wayfaringmd Said:

Oh, there are several ways. 

1. Sell crack. Maybe not crack. Crack is wack. Crack is cheap. Maybe meth?

(too early?)

2. Sell yourself.

3. Sell Candy to Diabetics

4. Gamble. (Stock Market, Lotto, guy with cards on the street, take your pick)

5. Beg on the street

6. Make a super successful blog or viral video and make millions in advertising and guest appearances on lame tv shows (my master plan revealed!).

So in summary, how am I making money in medical school?

Great question, greylambie. Well, to be honest, it doesn’t bother me all that much. Before y’all get all feminist-angry with me, let me clarify. 

In general, women make less money than men. That’s super not fair when they’re doing the exact same job (meaning same responsibilities, hours, and required training).

However, there are some jobs, like medicine, which can’t be compared well between males and females, and here’s why. 

Salaries in medicine vary widely, even within a specialty. This has a lot to do with a physician’s training, location, patient population, and their payer sources. For example, a family doctor who sees lots of privately insured people or who does lots of procedures probably gets paid considerably more than the doc working in an inner city clinic seeing majority medicaid and medicare patients. And the gov’ment doesn’t care if a doctor is male or female. They’re getting the same reimbursement rates. And then again, a family doc who signs a contract to be a hospitalist will also have a vastly different income.

Some specialties have significantly more females than others. I don’t have data to back this up, so correct me if I’m wrong, but my experience tells me that there are more women in the lower-paying specialties than the higher ones. OB-GYN is becoming more female dominated, as are family medicine and pediatrics. And personally, I don’t know many female interventional cardiologists, orthopods, or neurosurgeons. The exception might be radiology and dermatology, which are both high paying and probably more evenly split between the sexes. So of course, if there are more women in the lower paid specialties (which I assume they chose to be in), we will as a whole make less than men as a whole. 

I think the data about male vs. female doctor salaries can be skewed if it doesn’t take into account the fact that a lot of female doctors don’t work the same hours that male docs do. A lot of ladies work less hours so they can be with their families more, and that’s a trade off that they’re ok with. Less hours = less patients = less things to bill for = less moneys. 

So as far as my opinions go, yeah, I guess I wouldn’t really like it if I was getting paid less than someone doing the exact same job (like someone who was hired at the same time as me to do the same job), but if I had less seniority or a different practice makeup or less hours, it would make sense for me to make less. I guess what I mean is that it’s really hard to compare jobs in medicine because it’s all apples and oranges. 

Thoughts?

afternoonsnoozebutton:

My future, forever a loan.

afternoonsnoozebutton:

My future, forever a loan.